埃德蒙顿华人社区-Edmonton China

 找回密码
 注册
查看: 19560|回复: 114

油砂业遭受重创!Impact Calgary Job Already!

[复制链接]
鲜花(150) 鸡蛋(3)
发表于 2013-3-17 20:02 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
美国Shale Gas hit heavily Calgary Job Market. 很多朋友都开始忧心仲仲,爱城感觉到了没有啊?
鲜花(417) 鸡蛋(15)
发表于 2013-3-17 20:04 | 显示全部楼层
没事儿, 米国不要中国要啊....
鲜花(18) 鸡蛋(1)
发表于 2013-3-17 20:09 | 显示全部楼层
房价?
鲜花(371) 鸡蛋(1)
发表于 2013-3-17 20:31 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队 追求完美
搂主赶上了中国快速发展的10年
鲜花(28) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2013-3-17 20:32 | 显示全部楼层
有没有什么具体新闻阅读下?
鲜花(662) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2013-3-17 20:40 | 显示全部楼层
顺其自然,车到山前必有路,请不必担心。
鲜花(4) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2013-3-17 21:01 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
这已经发生了有段时间了吧
+ v& ~% T  R: o* j8 ?  e下一个看点是KEystone XL pipeline批不批了
鲜花(4) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2013-3-17 21:03 | 显示全部楼层
听口气,LZ有发生在身边人的真实故事呀
理袁律师事务所
鲜花(173) 鸡蛋(1)
发表于 2013-3-17 21:03 | 显示全部楼层
keystone xl 不批,鐵路公司發財了。
鲜花(150) 鸡蛋(3)
 楼主| 发表于 2013-3-17 21:12 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/ana...--finance.html
- c1 T* v+ _  I1 q
7 Y: q3 B% p+ |5 Y& wCALGARY, Alberta (Reuters) - The U.S. shale oil revolution is forcing Canada's oil sands industry to question whether there is a future in processing its crude into lighter oil, a tried-and-true way of wringing the most money out of a resource considered crucial to the country's prosperity.
7 F+ ]" q. K# u+ ?3 F! a$ Q5 eSuncor Energy Inc , which nearly 50 years ago pioneered the practice in Canada of mining and then upgrading the oil sands bitumen into refinery-ready light crude at the same site, served notice this month that the era of the integrated project may be ending.
$ p& g& _6 g5 i- |: ~6 {: Z$ BIt said it was reexamining a plan to build a multibillion-dollar upgrading plant in northern Alberta and taking a C$1.5 billion ($1.5 billion) charge to account for lower projected cash flow. The reason: cheap oil from North Dakota and elsewhere is making it uneconomical over the long haul to build such complexes.
8 ~$ ?# Z, j( W% b* Z! l1 n. I"Why would you spend billions of dollars to build an upgrader to create a product that is looking to be oversupplied in the markets you can access today?" said Jackie Forrest, director of global oil for consultancy IHS CERA.6 r2 {5 T2 _8 \1 y! H5 ?" D6 @
The Suncor move is more evidence of a shift from upgrading that is already well underway. Imperial Oil Ltd , for example, is building the C$12.9 billion Kearl development - the next major oil sands project to come online - without a processing plant.
/ C8 Q0 B0 f$ `Once considered a sure winner by most Canadians, the oil sands industry is now on the defensive on several fronts, struggling to prove it can deliver its raw materials to refiners at a competitive price and at an acceptable environmental cost
( r% l2 s8 l5 [7 H2 F4 q0 G/ ~The dilemma over upgrading points to more problems ahead as oil sands producers compete for capital against the developers of the cheaper, less damaging shale oil.7 {7 W- t* R7 e1 R, b! h
With less-processed heavy oil competing with the increased Bakken flows for pipeline space to U.S. refineries, a glut in Western Canada has built up, generating a wide discount on Canadian crude against benchmark West Texas Intermediate. That has created an immediate problem, not the least for Alberta, the province at the center of Canada's oil industry.
, Z9 N! n9 y1 h5 kAlberta Premier Alison Redford blames the so-called "bitumen bubble" for a forecast C$6 billion shortfall in revenues in the coming fiscal year. Deep budget cuts are in the offing.8 _( s" A7 `" P/ n: q1 s& t
As a result, the province is pushing for ways to shore up its budget against the falling revenue stream, while unions are calling for more upgrading to create jobs.
& \: {& E7 d' KPRICE DIFFERENTIAL
& h' w7 \# D! i3 L9 K$ T2 tThe industry, however, seems to be moving in the opposite direction. The problem is, building a new upgrader - a tangle of pipes and vessels that transforms raw bitumen into an oil product easily used by standard refineries - costs billions of dollars and may make little sense over the long term.; F4 K. N4 H7 g
In the short term, on-site processing would allow producers to boost the price of their product by upgrading it, and the wide price spread between cheap heavy oil and more expensive light crude would mean hefty margins.( ^8 Q6 z+ A! d6 U
Indeed, the gap has recently ballooned to more than $40 a barrel under U.S. benchmark West Texas Intermediate, compared with a historical differential of less than $20.2 M' n( }9 Z" k. `. ]1 N' F& A
But it takes years to build upgrading plants. In the meantime, new pipelines to export markets are expected to be built over the next decade - whether they are big ones such as TransCanada Corp's Keystone XL pipeline or incremental expansions.
# k+ |4 v  H" \) [% W. R/ kIf that happens the discount on heavy oil should shrink. That would leave the multibillion-dollar upgrading plants less able to compete with shale oil.' j' l  {* @/ C: K
IN THE PIPELINE! W; u# F3 V/ y9 A2 A+ w) }
To be sure, the Keystone XL project - connecting the oil sands with the U.S. Gulf Coast - is facing a full-scale push back from U.S. environmental groups, and final approval from Washington is not guaranteed.. i9 \7 l4 n$ c) I* V" D6 s6 A3 `$ H1 S
If the pipeline gets built, it would move 830,000 barrels a day of Alberta crude to Texas refineries, many of which are configured to process the heavier grades that are now imported from Venezuela, Mexico and elsewhere.) A" X8 U9 _2 b& b) s5 k! W
On today's pipeline network, it costs about $8.50 a barrel to ship crude to the U.S. Gulf region from Alberta, traders say. When new pipelines are built, the light-heavy oil price spread is expected to come close to the shipping cost.
- s% E' X6 ^; T4 S! Q" w) A  t8 H"You expect those bottlenecks will be gone, and once we get global pricing, we've actually seen fairly narrow differences between light and heavy crude," said IHS's Forrest.$ ?/ J) Y9 J- u  l4 \
SUNCOR DECISION
6 H" o$ l5 S$ q: CAgainst that backdrop, Suncor says it hasn't made a final decision on the proposed Voyageur upgrader, the centerpiece of its expansion strategy.
* f- y+ S  g" f+ J" G. d/ Q"We're looking at all options," Chief Executive Steve Williams said this month. "At one extreme you could go ahead with the project as it is. At the other extreme you could cancel the whole project and go ahead with nothing."+ }# y0 w6 r# a+ a* J# C
Williams fingered the U.S. shale boom as the main reason for the indecision, as oil coaxed to the surface using hydraulic fracturing does not need expensive upgrading to be run in standard refineries.
$ @  ^9 D4 q. ]' l( r2 E" UOil production in North Dakota has jumped to 730,000 bpd today from just over 100,000 bpd in 2006, making it the No. 2 oil-producing state after Texas. Large volumes of that crude is transported on the same pipelines as the Alberta oil, contributing to the disappearing spare capacity.
8 h( G' A* y& WIn the past year, both Bakken oil and upgraded light synthetic crude, which have similar specs, have climbed in tandem to around par with WTI, from around $13 a barrel below.) h7 u; J+ Q" `% W7 L# V
A recent PriceWaterhouseCoopers study said shale oil is likely to make the largest single contribution to total U.S. oil output growth by 2020, and that increased global shale output could lead to lower crude prices than are currently projected.
) P, b- v1 x) v8 ?/ fThose barrels have begun to replace some heavy crude in the U.S. market, squeezing the economics on upgrading plants that would pump out products to compete, said Reynold Tatzlaff, PwC's Canadian energy leader.
8 o" c4 U9 `" O  ?) i/ z( QNOT DEAD
/ ?- |. V9 M! }. m: |/ F$ ]That's not to say upgrading is dead. Existing plants pump out more than 1 million barrels of light synthetic crude a day. Privately held North West Upgrading Inc and Canadian Natural Resources Ltd are proceeding with a C$5.7 billion stand-alone upgrader and refinery near Edmonton.
+ v3 H- \& j: Q/ |' ]# RBut the North West plant will get help from a steady supply of bitumen from the Alberta government as part of an initiative to generate more valued-added dollars. Expansions, such as one that Canadian Natural is planning at its Horizon oil sands project, come cheaper than starting from scratch, though it is not rushing to start the project.
+ _; {0 W+ j$ EMike Deising, a spokesman for Alberta Energy Minister Ken Hughes, said he could not comment on various companies eschewing upgraders, saying they all employ different forecasts./ [  J0 }# ^' q
In another trend working against upgrading, oil sands mining is giving way to less-centralized steam-driven production methods, which are less costly to expand and which can ship diluted bitumen directly into the market. Several U.S. refineries have been retooled to run more of the heavy crude.0 |! C' K" _' v7 p- k6 b- c
Meanwhile, notorious construction cost overruns and a string of outages at existing upgraders have raised questions about reliability of returns and operations.
5 l& q7 Z3 u' T# V) KFor more than a decade, most tar sands projects in Alberta blew well through their budgets as the rush to develop the resources stretched Alberta's skilled labor pool thin. Companies sought to bolster manpower by importing workers from around the world, and the rush to develop drove up the costs of steel, other materials and equipment.
! i) v$ d9 |- ~* E& A5 @Several plants proposed before the 2008-2009 financial crisis were canceled, as credit dried up.
% E/ F2 Q# Z- L7 H, P/ V"It's been the perception that any and nearly all upgraders have been plagued with fires, maintenance issues, cold weather issues. They're expensive to run, and even more so, they're expensive to build," said Wood Mackenzie analyst Mark Oberstoetter.: t4 ]3 {* V6 S
(Editing by Frank McGurty, Janet Guttsman and Bob Burgdorfer) ( _( b, }" I+ K6 H" U
      
! m% M, g6 u! R: h; c, M
鲜花(150) 鸡蛋(3)
 楼主| 发表于 2013-3-17 21:13 | 显示全部楼层
Shale Gas成本每桶才几个刀(不到$10/barrel).
大型搬家
鲜花(150) 鸡蛋(3)
 楼主| 发表于 2013-3-17 21:15 | 显示全部楼层
看看这些担忧讨论:
" R3 W5 ^8 z, j8 K' p, }http://forum.iask.bz/showthread.php?t=630565
: p/ `: u7 m( {/ ]9 `( l* X( @8 ~
还要需要实事来证明,目前都是推测。。
: b  {6 e, p7 J- g5 E6 V5 f- H
% p* |: S% e9 }; s2 U1 U" m. g6 P1. Calgary的短期命运将在今年或者明年明朗~~
4 [/ _* D2 Y9 I; [+ T# ?最大的可能性是oil sand被shale oil打败,no more booming,投资会萎缩,会有layoff;
* Z* }1 [' f8 Y4 x8 i/ ~& t
, \) A, C" ^0 O9 Q2. 如果今年底,或者明年,crue oil 在~$70/barrel;如果真的发生mass layoff,就会数年都不会恢复景气。。。* X1 a* b: \8 g1 \5 S. U& O( w6 n3 u: [

* `( a+ [- G; O0 O- F$ g3.去年calgary人口净流入是3W,今年前两个月也是3千人净流入/月。。这就是所谓的,房子还有小抢购,人口净流入带来的。。+ u8 ^2 c8 x, ^
因为,calgary目前还是好于别的城市。。
! n- n; i! F% K& w  t
& g$ B( k8 b) v$ ]4. 如果BC在2014, 2015开始booming,人口到 2017年低于1 million不是不可能的,2015~2017房价会掉的可能性非常大。自住没有关系,买有多套的,供房子压力加大~~: P4 o; {: Q( p8 m0 B" A/ M$ J; r* b

5 u/ q; p2 S0 E5. 2017年左右,calgary是否Detroit再现就会明朗???
6 ^3 C2 E; O1 [3 O6 A8 I1 {- J% _。。。。。”* y- p- f8 _; g1 P( r2 Y
1 l, }8 y) M8 O. M; P
鲜花(150) 鸡蛋(3)
 楼主| 发表于 2013-3-17 21:17 | 显示全部楼层
同言同羽 置业良晨
朋友的工程公司已经开始裁员,传闻是裁300人。
鲜花(150) 鸡蛋(3)
 楼主| 发表于 2013-3-17 21:20 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
大家怎么看??
鲜花(371) 鸡蛋(1)
发表于 2013-3-17 21:42 | 显示全部楼层
有请如花
鲜花(2) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2013-3-17 21:47 | 显示全部楼层
  静待其变啊,不过,一些与之相关行业工作职位的同志就要早作准备啦。
鲜花(499) 鸡蛋(10)
发表于 2013-3-17 22:13 | 显示全部楼层
同言同羽 置业良晨
题目的语法严重错误。能全用中文吗谢谢。
大型搬家
鲜花(150) 鸡蛋(3)
 楼主| 发表于 2013-3-17 22:20 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 醉酒当歌 于 2013-3-17 23:21 编辑 4 W1 V, \2 q/ ]; x- m5 I$ d
SheJing 发表于 2013-3-17 23:13 7 g+ s, _* T, j, w' F. K9 [/ y# g: q
题目的语法严重错误。能全用中文吗谢谢。
8 u+ q2 Z1 n; U6 Y- m& \! _7 @
" `" G6 R( w) R) w
哦,你可以给改改,标题要遵守语法的?
鲜花(1) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2013-3-17 23:15 | 显示全部楼层
I read the whole article, and it is about if building upgraders here is feasible or not. It is not related to your conclusion - the headline.
鲜花(1) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2013-3-17 23:40 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
  又可以拿EI啦
鲜花(4) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2013-3-18 08:14 | 显示全部楼层
醉酒当歌 发表于 2013-3-17 22:17
9 c9 i1 h2 D! V/ E: j  J朋友的工程公司已经开始裁员,传闻是裁300人。
( ^! }  l, w6 E% k
which one? Bantrel, Fluor, SNC, Jacob???
鲜花(55) 鸡蛋(0)
发表于 2013-3-18 09:01 | 显示全部楼层
同言同羽 置业良晨
一切皆有可能,未雨绸缪
鲜花(749) 鸡蛋(2)
发表于 2013-3-18 09:18 | 显示全部楼层
同言同羽 置业良晨
醉酒当歌 发表于 2013-3-17 21:13 ! Q8 \/ ~8 R2 \) F+ C- X
Shale Gas成本每桶才几个刀(不到$10/barrel).
8 u% U" |% j1 T/ d( Z- I  M' V
gas不能用桶来计量吧? 能吗? 算成油气当量不到10刀?
4 |! y# @8 K7 m4 M8 B2 G1 b) |0 ]2 L) U/ l
储运成本比较大,液化气化都得花钱,要不就修管道。总之钱,钱,钱。有5家大公司做成系统了之后才能看出来是不是对油砂有影响。
3 ~6 Z# s! R- b, G- B$ r, H5 \/ W5 P- ~( z; Y
对油砂有影响的是油价, 不是shale gas, 除非有技术能把页岩气转化成凝析油或者大程度开发页岩油。
鲜花(749) 鸡蛋(2)
发表于 2013-3-18 09:22 | 显示全部楼层
有油必有气,有气未比有油,油气完全不同两概念。我们的油藏看得见摸得着,让美国佬自己炒概念去吧。最好炒个苹果气, 菠萝气之类的。 哈哈。
鲜花(2253) 鸡蛋(32)
发表于 2013-3-18 09:25 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
这是我之前写的一些分析
, Q% z9 G: u& u/ u7 C# g4 O# x+ t3 @2 D
http://www.edmontonchina.ca/foru ... p;extra=&page=3
) r& g) ~, @( [- b1 s: t' p" @. I$ A  t7 L3 j

% m/ w+ n" W+ a! w- f) |, Q- K残酷的现实' z- ?$ n4 W7 Q# }9 v$ S

9 {$ ~4 }. l4 n; R; `油砂的公司能令自己有竞争优势靠的是什么?
1 ], U2 A/ y5 E4 Y" \* V
6 c7 J/ c8 a% e) J$ A5 [技术?
8 J; H( e$ K3 A
: T& Z3 b1 C  \: i5 s最流行的SAGD是69年开始使用,经过几十年的不断改进,已经很成熟和被油砂公司广泛采用。不见得谁比谁更有优势。# i7 f, l, o! x+ |2 {: z

5 s  P5 G6 `! w6 B钱?对。: m8 ?0 f$ Y- z4 ]  t

% P* ?! G/ m  ]: P- L8 v有资本可以大规模生产、可以修建各种基建设施,如:道路、upgrader。降低单位生产成本。$ L. w( H& H  |

+ K# x; t, v' \4 ]  ?6 |但运输不畅顺,使本已高成本的油便宜卖。也不是钱可以解决的问题。. x. o/ E5 ^; {/ v) L

7 M( ]) L( M4 {( N. q" `# U8 i( @
0 Z4 m5 n# [! |8 I' X0 WSuncor是加拿大油砂的老大,资本最雄厚,最近宣布:
  y, U5 H  n. i2 {  n4 c& |$ h! I1,        推迟Voyageur upgrader的建设。该项目价值110亿,suncor已投入15亿,其他各项支出约40亿。
4 Y3 a8 ~( U3 f" O, y2,        推迟206亿的Fort Hills油砂项目一年。/ A' x' R' H& H% k& A0 P( W6 _

( G5 S1 i5 g" Y& \Voyageur upgrader原计划是将Fort Hills产的bitumen合成成synthetic crude oil,但是没有足够的油管,WCS/WTI的价差可能会令公司产多亏多,同时,美国North Dakota 地区的Bakken shale-oil 产量大增,也令油价受压。如果现时继续增加产量,显然对suncor不利。
鲜花(2253) 鸡蛋(32)
发表于 2013-3-18 09:26 | 显示全部楼层
挑战
, T0 y, ^8 K* P0 O# I: T; w: f4 t1,        美国是仅次于中国的页岩油/气储备国。开采技术也成熟。大量开采会对加拿大油砂是个巨大的威胁。: a( v  P( J% C4 X0 G, w, ?
! m* U* F) }/ o) {9 `
2,        能否出现成本更低的油砂开采技术?
) E/ h3 R( Y$ E1 m- z7 j% e
2 ]8 h1 `) e( B% G3,        根据美国能源部的预测数据,未来2年,美国产油增加,会由2012年的6.4mb/d上升到2014年的7.9mb/d.,而进口则从2012年的7.5mb/d减少到2014年的6mb/d.。美国消耗油在2005年有60%进口油,到2014年,此比例会减少至32%。& u1 a6 S$ z  N( a- y' c& H8 u

5 d8 m. ~" A8 n8 J& C, f  ~4,        石油管道的建设,Keystone XL、Northern Gateway,以及芝加哥到德州Cushing的管道。
鲜花(749) 鸡蛋(2)
发表于 2013-3-18 09:31 | 显示全部楼层
能否出现成本更低的油砂开采技术?
: a+ y+ o  G4 r, Z+ ~" X9 U* k! h7 g) c  {
技术不知道, 成本能降低。 整个开发环节一体服务外包。不考虑省民感受,石油大鳄的利润会提高。
鲜花(1583) 鸡蛋(5)
发表于 2013-3-18 09:35 | 显示全部楼层
刨除工作多的因素,卡城的气候及环境都是非常优秀的
  p+ x" H) n* e* g! `1 _
鲜花(749) 鸡蛋(2)
发表于 2013-3-18 09:45 | 显示全部楼层
老杨团队,追求完美;客户至上,服务到位!
redrunner 发表于 2013-3-18 09:35 : G$ F. B1 o  q/ R+ Y5 O
刨除工作多的因素,卡城的气候及环境都是非常优秀的

. H' M9 u* t7 a, k  ]咱们这海拔太高,国内的大佬都不爱来这,还笑我们大脑缺氧。我回鸡之:你们缺雾霾!2 v$ V: G  T4 v1 S
+ i. X$ p' e! w. u
不过确实挺高的,平原都近700了, 有时候真觉得很缺氧。
鲜花(1583) 鸡蛋(5)
发表于 2013-3-18 10:12 | 显示全部楼层
kelvin 发表于 2013-3-18 09:45 ! m' Q) O: l4 l2 C5 P
咱们这海拔太高,国内的大佬都不爱来这,还笑我们大脑缺氧。我回鸡之:你们缺雾霾!
( R7 S4 A0 m* p! n0 f
0 E& K$ e- k! P. i& X; v不过确实挺高的, ...
* j  o1 ?' ]# \. J; [# v) y
是吗 我记得国内内蒙古海拔1400 . }% g* f& J' d: I
北京不记得。 ! U1 U! x7 n6 A
你应该这样回击;昆明一年四季如春,海拔更高。 不过那里的人脸有点红扑扑的,
您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 注册

本版积分规则

联系我们|小黑屋|手机版|Archiver|埃德蒙顿中文网

GMT-7, 2025-8-24 22:42 , Processed in 0.200064 second(s), 41 queries , Gzip On, APC On.

Powered by Discuz! X3.4

Copyright © 2001-2021, Tencent Cloud.

快速回复 返回顶部 返回列表