关于滑跤索赔辩论的一些补充——还有一个致本版版主们的建议，敬请笑纳

zsm2002

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因为没有太多时间，再加上辩论话题并不是我感兴趣的话题，这几天就没有关注，目前这个辩论帖已经不能回了，所以这里另开一贴补充一些想说的话。

* L. B. V: Z( l. m# p1 v4 T首先是给本版版主们的一点建议，这个建议要从我为什么会开一个辩论帖说起。我是很偶然看到那个滑倒索赔的帖子的，本来是想增长一点这类纠纷的知识，但很快我就发现气氛不太对，似乎对立情绪越来越浓，于是，我就有了这么一个想法：开一个辩论帖，希望能够把激情四射的争论转化为理性平和的辩论。结果大家看到了，不太理想，我分析了一下，觉得主要原因有两个：第一当然是我的个人能力问题，比如匆匆提出的辩题缺乏吸引力或者不够科学，草草写就的辩论规则问题太多，组织能力不行，缺乏号召力等等；第二个就是原来的帖没有关闭，导致争论的激情仍然有宣泄的地方，这样激情转成理性就缺乏了条件。我觉得吧，这两个问题对于版主们来说，都不是问题，所以，虽然这种尝试没有一个成功的开始，但或许还是有一定的参考价值，所以我建议版主们在今后如果再遇到这类充满火药味的斗争贴，请在可能的情况下再实验实验我这个思路。毕竟相互攻击的争论只能导致对立和愤怒，基本上属于害人害己，意义不大，理性客观的辩论才能让大家开阔思路，增长知识，利国利民呀。

3 c! r8 ?; M# i$ ]. }4 B第二个是关于辩论奖品的申明。我在开贴时候的承诺，当然得做到，虽然只是象征性的，也请各位辩手们不要嫌弃。我会将我承诺的网络货币转给裁判如花同学，由如花同学颁发给胜方。再次向参加辩论的辩手们表达我真诚的谢意。也感谢所有旁观的同学的热情参与。

3 n6 L* B4 H8 D; h第三个是关于辩论中的一个事项的补充——关于赔偿纠纷中的私了模式。在我做正方辩手后，曾经查阅了一些资料，其中有些和私了相关，但辩论的时候我觉得私了是一种很常见的索赔方式，在一些小数额的纠纷如一些小车祸中使用得很普遍，应该不是问题，而且当时我也没有注意到私了这个方式存在着争议，所以这些资料我都没有采用。现在回头找了一下，只找到没有记录来源的一小段，我会发在下面，供大家参考。事先声明，我不能保证这个资料具有权威性或者正确性，也不能保证其所说的适合加拿大。
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3 G. f  Y% M) q另外，在原来的辩论帖中，紫光曾经提出一个很重要的问题：私了的法律风险问题。我想，其实，相对于走司法走保险的方式，私了虽然省时省力，但对于纠纷双方来说，确实都面临着相对较大的法律和人身安全风险，如何避免在普遍使用的私了模式中吃亏，希望有专家或者有经验的同学能够详细谈谈。

zsm2002

In order to be able to understand the importance of slip and fall settlements, it is vital that we understand what is meant by slip and fall. When the phrase slip and fall is referred to, what is essentially meant is an accident that occurs on the property of a person and causes injury to another person.
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  F3 i) S3 l6 X# _' UThis accident has two parties that are involved, that is the owner of the property and the victim. Once the injury has occurred, the victim will want to get compensated, and the property owner will not want to have legal action taken against him. This is where slip and fall settlements come in.

slip and fall settlements occur when the victim and owner of the property want to come to an understanding as how to, best deal with the situation. The settlements come after the two parties have finished negotiations.
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During the negotiation stage, the victim will have the right to talk directly to the owner of the property and tell him about all the inconveniences that he has undergone as an end result of the slip and fall accident, for example, loss of a job, pain, inability to walk and financial distress among others. The owner of the property is supposed to listen and then offer his opinion about what the victim has said. Having stated the result of the accident;
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the victim can then ask for compensation from the owner of the property. At this point, the actual negotiations begin, and the owner of the property is supposed to state how much financial help he can afford to give the victim.

" v$ }( P1 _7 T) _5 ?5 z  GIt should be noted that the settlements take place outside the courtroom and are meant to be a private affair between the victim and the owner of the property. These proceedings are, therefore, not formal, and both parties are free to speak. The settlement is said to have been reached when both parties agree upon how much compensation the victim is supposed to receive.
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During the slip and fall negotiations, the owner of the property can also place some blame on the victim by saying that, part of the accident was his fault; for example if he was not walking with shoes at the time he stepped on the sharp object, or if he failed to look where he was stepping. The parties are supposed to negotiate and then come to an understanding at the settlement.

The settlement is extremely important, because these accidents are very common and they could happen to anyone at any time. With the settlement, people do not have to worry about going to court and possibly losing a lot of time and money during the proceedings. When both parties to the accident meet and resolve their issues privately, they will each get what they want, and no more complications will occur. The victim will get financial help, and the owner of the property will save a lot of time and money that would have been spent in formal court proceedings.

Becks

zsm2002 发表于 2013-3-15 20:33
In order to be able to understand the importance of slip and fall settlements, it is vital that we u ...

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英语和执著

如花

VitaminC

顶ｚ大的贴

紫光

私了虽然有一定法律风险，但也不是不行。特别是一些损失轻微的纠纷。
私了应该就是一个纠纷的终结。
法律上没有双重惩罚一说。
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JackBauer

lz是在开玩笑吧
& e* e/ s" f1 e$ {如果通过版主的合理疏导 没有了这种火药味十足的帖子
这个网站上的那些个圣人岂不是要被自己满腔的道德感给憋坏了

如花

双方辩手奖金发放完毕，感谢党，感谢ccav，感谢zsm2002z赞助这次辩论，感谢各位精彩发言！和气生财！

导弹

收到！

老杨

支持Z大！

uil

这个世界上很难说服别人,你总是想说服别人.可小.
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夏小姜

崇拜崇拜崇拜崇拜崇拜崇拜崇拜崇拜崇拜崇拜崇拜崇拜来自: iPhone客户端

FrankSoccer

最近工作太忙没太关心这事情

$ @( ?5 R3 l& {5 m" l: @我的小ｃｅｎｔｓ几个：

6 Z/ C7 W6 ^+ Q( x１　辩论，特别是有了成见的辩论，很少能说服对手认他改变主意，但如果能说服公众或者评委就是赢
２　既然是法制社会，依法做事不该受非议
３　私了当然好，不伤和气和大雅。撞车事故中常常有私了。但不能违法。如果两方打不清，就该走法律程序。
6 m( K* u4 T1 w; N  S４　如果没有特殊情况（比如，位置低积雪冰），造成伤害，房主该负责的
５　小问题，有谁愿意在冰上摔一跤？

阳光沙滩

Winter Sidewalks



; Q/ A/ T/ G; r) `4 T: wSnow that remains on sidewalks is hazardous for everyone, but especially for people with limited mobility who may be severely injured from a fall on ice or snow. Uncleared walkways also make it difficult for people who deliver services in our city - mail carriers, meter readers, delivery drivers, firefighters, and paramedics.  That is why the Community Standards Bylaw requires that you clean the public walks around your property down to the pavement within 48 hours of a snowfall.
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0 Z4 N# |9 a& AProperty owners are also responsible for clearing snow from every walk and driveway on or beside a property with buildings normally occupied by people, including derelict buildings.
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5 T" {/ j: K4 v, q, ]When you remove snow promptly after a snowfall, you play an important role in keeping our city moving safely in difficult weather. Be your neighbourhood's urban hero and make it great, within 48.
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Freeze-thaw Cycles
9 P3 s8 K& j' ^5 l$ K% M, p. ZWhile properly removing snow prevents a build-up of ice over the winter, freeze-thaw weather cycles cause water from melting snow to run on to cleared walks. The water then becomes ice when the temperature drops.
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! L0 u5 E. C; G  l' a4 M8 C# h+ HYou are still required to keep the walks around your property safe during freeze-thaw cycles, either by keeping them ice-free or by spreading sand or gravel to give pedestrians traction.

To help you keep your walks safe, the City provides free sand that can be picked up from green boxes outside your nearest Community League.

Tips for Sidewalk Clearing
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6 U; s! O9 S( `Keeping a sidewalk clear of ice and snow can be a bit of a struggle during Edmonton winters.

1 W0 D& \, R* K+ q) jThese tips for sidewalk snow removal can help you keep the walks around your property safe.

: P3 c& ^3 X% P% Y* r3 oReporting a Concern
Complaints are accepted between November 1 and May 1, and only when it has not snowed for at least 48 hours.
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$ M$ y, e7 ~) Z0 @7 aIf you have a concern about a neighbour's uncleared walk:
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Discuss the concern directly with your neighbour
Offer to help them keep it clear if needed by becoming a Snow Angel
Record the address of the violation and a description of the problem if you can't resolve the problem directly with your neighbour
7 X  Q  C0 A' Z+ `! B6 MCall 311 or register a complaint online
& |5 R# t2 G% H4 D0 r3 {3 ZProvide your name, address, phone number, and the details of your concern in case your testimony is required in court
( P9 k0 }  Z- i- c9 r3 v5 cResponding to Your Complaint
After you call 311, the City takes these steps to help with your issue:
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A file is created specifying your concerns
A Municipal Enforcement Officer (MEO) opens an investigation
  a7 ~7 Y0 t8 Z9 B7 h6 p9 {# @4 s, jThe officer investigates your complaint within 4 business days
The MEO may issue a warning notice with directions to remedy the problem within a specified time frame, or issue a $100 fine immediately, depending on the circumstances
The officer may issue an order, which allows the City to fix the problem and bill the property owner for the cost
The City may contact you to appear as a witness, if the matter goes to court
2 ?4 e& ]# X7 S, |Business owners do not receive warnings. Tickets are issued immediately if walks are not cleared within 48 hours of a snowfall.
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Protecting Your Privacy
9 T+ \! \' @9 R  `2 y; Y7 JThe information you provide will be used to process your complaint, but your name and address will not be made available to anyone else. For more information on how the City protects your privacy visit Freedom of Information and Privacy.
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For more information:
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Sustainable Development
5th floor, 10250 - 101 Street
Edmonton, AB  T5J 3P4

: h+ b  l" K% `/ [Hours of Operation:

6 t1 w9 `9 \7 a* GMonday to Friday
  u4 E; K. U4 T% y8am to 4:30pm
0 k# Z8 t) h9 h* D% d  hTelephone       
In Edmonton: 311

' t! n* |  P9 @. S, bOutside Edmonton: 780-442-5311

Fax        780-496-6054
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FrankSoccer

如果砸冰不方便，有人用盐化冰，可以去社区中心拉些砂子撒在上面防滑

架鸡棚

狐狸为什么一出门儿就容易摔跤呢？因为它们很脚滑。

Becks

阳光沙滩 发表于 2013-3-16 15:44
Winter Sidewalks

这个是市政俯的政策， 雪停48小时后要保证行人道安全。

' w7 j, V$ K1 b但不知道真摔伤， 比如摔短腿， 或留下后遗症怎么办。打官司应该超出了市政俯的管辖。
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唉， 有精打在就好了

kingsnake

Becks 发表于 2013-3-16 18:01
这个是市政俯的政策， 雪停48小时后要保证行人道安全。
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但不知道真摔伤， 比如摔短腿， 或留下后遗症怎 ...

2 a- U; l* u( {& Q' `/ Y' j' |那下雪後48小時之内摔倒又怎樣呢？？？？

Becks

kingsnake 发表于 2013-3-16 18:28
4 }! l4 K' N) T% n那下雪後48小時之内摔倒又怎樣呢？？？？

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- M4 Y# U' d; \按我的理解，估计到市政府也告不赢。

谁也不能保证总在家， 是不是？ 48小時应该是合理的grace period

Becks

比方下大雪， 房主自己被堵在高速上， 当天回不来， 回办公室凑合了一夜。 雪停了回来发现有人在他门口摔伤了。
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我想这种情况告房主应该赢不了。48小時规定是合情合理的。
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呵呵，看来冬天回国要雇人定期扫雪

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FrankSoccer

架鸡棚 发表于 2013-3-16 17:59
& c% [) Q3 r2 I* p: |狐狸为什么一出门儿就容易摔跤呢？因为它们很脚滑。

7 L. V; `  m  j* c& R" X% r. J: e因为心不在焉：它的眼睛直溜溜地盯住那只鸡

FrankSoccer

Becks 发表于 2013-3-16 18:01
! c9 O# X6 s7 W( T/ d0 B- d1 \这个是市政俯的政策， 雪停48小时后要保证行人道安全。
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4 n7 r+ z  w# |( P但不知道真摔伤， 比如摔短腿， 或留下后遗症怎 ...

4 s7 `2 O' x. @3 R8 h精打报道过：

. A1 F- S* J- o+ X, B1 [* ~# X% _小偷进家行窃摔伤反告房主的案子

FrankSoccer

顺谢，Ｃｒｉｓｉｓ的花。

架鸡棚

Becks 发表于 2013-3-16 18:43
比方下大雪， 房主自己被堵在高速上， 当天回不来， 回办公室凑合了一夜。 雪停了回来发现有人在他门口摔伤 ...

回办公室凑合了一夜?

这就说不清了, 谁能保证当晚在办公室流速的没有女同事?

Becks

架鸡棚 发表于 2013-3-16 22:28
: q$ t3 X! ~( p4 j5 p回办公室凑合了一夜?
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这就说不清了, 谁能保证当晚在办公室流速的没有女同事?

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edmonton-fish

觉的那个原帖很好， 说明了俺们屯子里的大多数人是厚道的好人。

) Z: `# o* _/ y5 K不应动不动就关贴，删贴。

: l1 X! i1 r4 ^8 z" g3 t本人坚决反对关贴，删贴！

crisisi

sweetlele

初衷也许是好的，但根本没有想对地方
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) \+ `; a9 n* s& E4 j0 R" P( x+ d首先，这个所谓辩论帖子的目的到底是什么？

辩明白什么是对的什么是错的？那根本不该搞辩论赛，因为辩论赛从来都不是用来讨论什么是对的什么是错的什么是应该的什么是不应该的

看谁的辩论技巧高？那就要有规则，有模式，有评委，有时间限制，单靠什么自由辩论就想说哪一方胜哪一方败，根本就不科学

3 O5 k/ h: h2 J: Z6 b& I" t为了消磨时间闲得无聊？那大家自然是有时间就辩，没时间就不掺和，组织起来组织不起来都很正常，看大家的空闲来定
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至于要求关掉原帖，我觉得没有必要，你不能说自己开了个饭店就让别的饭店都关门，谁愿意上哪个帖子讨论是他自己的自由
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over
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uil

如果群众的意见已经是一边倒，还辩论个鸟。TMD吃饱了撑的。支持乐乐。

zsm2002

Becks 发表于 2013-3-15 20:49
( p* Z4 P/ e+ ^% p; A9 f% C  T0 n英语和执著

不过这里可能有点小误会，因为这英文我可写不出来